2.23am What Wakes You?






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2:23AM Podcast Season #1, Episode #10 - Cindy Wigglesworth - On Spiritual Intelligence and the frontiers of leadership

2:23AM Podcast Season #1, Episode #10 - Cindy Wigglesworth - On Spiritual Intelligence and the frontiers of leadership

As someone who has worked for nearly 20 years in leadership development I simply love Cindy's work. We first met in Sydney several years ago where I was impressed by the beautiful articulation Cindy has around her work with Spiritual Intelligence that only comes through years of atunement, refinement and profound commitment. Spiritual Intelligence is an intelligence whose time has come.

If you are remotely interested in your own development as a leader, a human being, a lover, parent or entrepreneur, then the work of SQ is something to consider.

To listen on itunes, soundcloud, stitcher, to download, or listen below.



Cindy Wigglesworth, President, Deep Change

Cindy Wigglesworth, MA is the author of the best-selling and award-winning book SQ21: The Twenty-One Skills of Spiritual Intelligence (SelectBooks, 2012)

Her SQ21 spiritual intelligence self-assessment has created a validated and diversity-appropriate way of having spiritual conversations in the workplace. John Mackey, co-CEO of Whole Foods Market, calls her SQ approach “the next frontier in leadership.”

Cindy founded her business, now called Deep Change, in 2000 after working at ExxonMobil for 20 years in Human Resources management. She teaches leadership development and focuses on the multiple intelligences required for success in our personal and professional lives.

Cindy has spoken at numerous conferences including: TEDx Sonoma County, TEDx Lower East Side, Conscious Capitalism, Integral Leadership in Action, Business and Consciousness, Spirit in Business, Spirit at Work and the World Business Academy. Cindy has appeared on Oprah, PBS, Fox26 News and numerous radio programs and conferences. Her blog can be found on the Huffington Post.

 Show notes

*Spiritual Intelligence = The ability to behave with wisdom and compassion while maintaining inner and outer peace regardless of the situation.

*Will we grow up fast enough to solve all the problems we have created?

*From white picket fence to Bombay aged 6.

*What does it mean to be a good human being?

*For Cindy the personal and global have been married since the beginning.

*"If I just studied hard enough I would find something that would help me figure this all out."

*How grown up are we? Can we handle the complexity of the systems in which we are embedded?

*Overdeveloped IQ, thinking this would solve all problems. "We get that you are really smart, however you are somewhat annoying to be around."

*Listening to people is a radically good idea.

*As the who that she was changed her leadership changed and she became far more effective, yet she was doing none of the usual expert self stuff. No longer able to tell people, "Here is the solution."

*The difference between a facilitative leader versus a more traditional one.

*What if I came in with not knowing?

*How do human beings grow up?

*How have the noblest people, like the Nelson Mandela's and Gandhi's get to the place of humility? It's not that they are perfect. It's not that they have zero ego, which is probably not attainable.

*Is my ego running my life or is my higher self running my life?

*The ego grows up as it expands the circle of concern for others, from little me, to me and my family, to me and my family and my city, to me, my family, my city, and my nation...to the whole world and all sentient beings.

*Each time a layer of ego is peeled off it feels like your skin is raw.

*Talk about the skills and stay away from beliefs.

*Spirituality defined as an innate human need to be connected to something larger than our selves.

*Religion is the structure we create as human beings to help us in support of our spiritual hunger.

*An intelligence is an innate potential that is brought into form through practice. (for example, musical ability needs practice.)

*Spiritual Intelligence is a set of skills that is something more than IQ and EQ, that distinguishes these exemplars that we keep pointing to. (Nelson Mandela etc) What makes Gandhi different from a person you really like that has outstanding interpersonal skills? There is something more. This is spiritual intelligence.

*Aware of your ego self and higher self and choosing to live with your higher self in charge. If you are not interested in either of these two things then SQ is not for you.

*The four intelligences of leadership. Physical, Emotional, IQ, and Spiritual Intelligence

*Holding multiple perspectives simultaneously is a sign of high SQ.



*Deep Change, Spiritual Intelligence

*Cindy's TEDx talks as hosted on TEDx sites: and here.

*OR you can see THEM ON YOUTUBE where Cindy gets credit for views. And here.

*Author page on Amazon:




Please leave comments here, or even better on itunes, which helps us spread the word of the podcast.

Direct download: Cindy_W_-_31102014_9.29_am.m4a
Category:Business -- posted at: 8:01pm EDT

2:23AM, the podcast, Season #1, Episode #9 - Hugo Spowers, Riversimple - redesigning cars, redesigning business

2:23AM, the podcast, Season #1, Episode #9 - Hugo Spowers, Riversimple - redesigning cars, redesigning business

Wow, wow, wow...Riversimple is not just about redesigning cars and redesigning business...what Hugo and his team have done over the last 15 years is turn how we engage in business on its head. As a follow on to the last episode with Frederic Laloux, Hugo is building a business in a very traditional area (car manufacturing) but turning it completely on its head. No tinkering here. This is a new model. It is quite breathtaking. I want one of his cars, now.

Enjoy this episode.


To listen on itunes, on stitcher,



Chief engineer and founder, Hugo has a passion for zero emission vehicles. An Oxford University trained engineer and entrepreneur, he founded and ran a business designing and building racing cars and restoring historic racing cars. Environmental concerns led him away from motorsport; the focus of his MBA at Cranfield University was a feasibility study into bringing hydrogen fuel cell cars to market. He founded OScar Automotive in 2001, which became Riversimple in 2007. The first fuel cell car to emerge was the LIFECar, developed by a consortium Hugo brought together with Morgan and presented at the Geneva Motorshow in 2008. The small  Hyrban technology demonstrator followed in 2009. Hugo is responsible for all the technical aspects of the new car in development and for the architecture of the business itself.


Show notes

*2:23AM moments- will people ever wake up?

*highly efficient, resource neutral cars are entirely possible, the problem is people and politics

*much easier to work from the outside of the motor industry than from the inside

*First car complete March 2015, beta test late 2015, production 2017

*disruptive shift in technology comes from left field, starts in a niche market, the niche is too small for the incumbent, it leads to a change in segmentation of the market, and the incumbent is in a very mature market (the automotive one of the most mature markets)

*car is now unfit for purpose

*the luxury of a clean sheet of paper allows you to think much more freely

*huge constraints in changing direction

*when you bring people in from the incumbent industries you do have to be sure the people are aligned to your values and purpose

*the purpose of Riversimple is “To pursue, systematically, the elimination of the environmental impact of personal transport”

*backcasting process....imagining a future where we have got sustainable transport, leads you to make very different decisions

*being less unsustainable is still not sustainable

*trying to align the interests of all the actors in the system, rather than focusing on the technology and profit margin and trying to push that into the market

*make more money doing the right thing

*selling a performance contract on a car, will never sell a car. Selling mobility. This contact covers literally everything...fuel, road tax, cost of the car..everything. This changes completely the drivers for the business - no longer wanting to sell more cars, but to sell cars that have the lowest possible running costs/more efficient and the most longevity

*in a sale of product world you are rewarded for resource maximization..the more product you churn through the more you are rewarded. Riversimple is rewarded for resource efficiency.

*Cannot have a sustainable industrial society based on rewarding industry for the opposite of what we are trying to achieve

*Open sourcing the technology

*don't buy fuel cells for the car from suppliers but instead pay for kilowatt hours - buying the service rather than the product

*business model of this last century isn't well suited to the business model of this next century

*explicit about the fact that Riversimple does not want people to take the car through environmental guilt, but because they want it

*can't maximise the goodwill of stakeholders if their interests are subordinated to the interest of the shareholders

*6 different stakeholder groups. The investors, the environment, the customers, the staff, the commercial partners, the community (no direct commercial relationship)

*the fiduciary responsibility of the board is to pursue the purpose (as above) whilst balancing and protecting the 6 benefit streams of the custodians

*answering the need for control in a different way

*customers on a need not to know basis, vs a need to know

*have to get very used to being told it can't be done

*whole systems design - don't optimise by looking at a bit of the car, need to look at the whole system

*trying to fit a radical idea into an old context will not work

*if we had tried to do this quicker we would have failed

*to change things and implement a new model rebelliousness and courage are required

*"we are to be the architect of the future, not its victims" R. Buckminster Fuller

*three different levels of design. D1 design of product and services, D2 is the design of systems, D3 is the design of ideology




Steve Evens, Professor at Cambridge

Sebastian Piech, Chairman

Joanna Macy, 3 Levels of Change



Direct download: Hugo_Spowers_-_23102014_3.46_pm.m4a
Category:Business -- posted at: 2:09am EDT

Frederic Laloux, Reinventing Organizations

2:23AM The Podcast, Season #1, Episode #8 - Frederic Laloux, Reinventing Organizations

My guest today is Frederic Laloux, author of the very important management and business book, Reinventing Organizations. I consider this one of the most important books on business and management systems of this last decade, if not of this next decade. Frederic has researched those rare organisations around the world who have thrown away the traditional top down organisational structure, and adopted organisations of distributed intelligence and distributed power. These organisations are located all around the world, across multiple industries, and many have been in operation for decades in very tough markets. Yet they outperform every time..even though performance is not the goal.

If you are someone who yearns for organisations that operate with fluidity, have no extra layers of management, enables everyone to have power of choice and action, frees up the CEO to focus on creativity and stewardship, then you will love this interview and the book. You can tell by reading Frederic's Bio that he is not someone who conforms to business or life as usual.

To listen on itunes, on soundcloud, on stitcher, to download.



Frederic Laloux is a man of many projects that he tries to square, not always easily, with his inner knowing that he is meant to live a simple life, spending much time with his family and whenever possible in the silent presence of trees.

Among other things, Frederic advises leaders of organizations who feel called to explore fundamentally new ways of organizing. His research in the field of emerging organizational models, published in his book Reinventing Organizations has been described as “groundbreaking,” “spectacular,” “world-changing,” and “a leap in management thinking” by some of the most respected scholars in the field of human development and management.

A former Associate Partner with McKinsey & Company, Laloux holds an MBA from INSEAD, and a degree in coaching from Newfield Network in Boulder, Colorado. He has traveled widely and speaks five languages fluently. Frederic Laloux lives in Brussels, Belgium, where he is blessed to share his life with his wife, Hélène, and their two children.

Show notes

*acknowledgement and sadness of the wounds we are inflicting onto the planet and ourselves

*what type of questions will our Grandchildren ask us?

*everything in his life has prepared him for this book

*the soullessness of the big corporations

*inquire into what would be the most meaningful thing I could do? Not the most impactful, simply the most meaningful thing now, and if I did this the Universe would provide me with an income

*fundamental departures from our current understanding of management

* a shift from the pyramid and layers of hierarchy that are common in today's organisations

*the human brain of 80 billion cells do not have a boss, they have very clear co-ordinating mechanisms

*systems of distributed intelligence into the organisation. No one is the boss of anyone else

*not flatland by any means, you cannot do whatever you want

*everyone is powerful and has the power to make it happen

*precondition for this to work is a founder/CEO who is fully willing to not be the all powerful person, to no longer have top down authority

*the CEO must play by the same rules as everyone

*the power and control is baked into the system

*diss-identified from their ego

*the advise process

*don't have a career plan, a life based around expressing the most meaningful choices is an emergent one

*the last thing he wants to do is restrict the circulation of these ideas

*the gift economy



*CEO of Unilver, Paul Polman

*Reinventing Organizations, the book

*Maslow's hierarchy of needs

*Ken Wilber

*Spiral Dynamics

*Integral Theory

If you love this episode, please comment below, or on itunes. This helps us grow.
Direct download: Frederic_Laloux_-_16102014_3.44_pm.m4a
Category:Business -- posted at: 9:01pm EDT

2:23AM podcast, Season #1, Episode #7 - Jonathan Jay -The Mindset of an entrepreneurial 'lifer' - solving problems, making decisions, self belief

2:23AM podcast, Season #1, Episode #7 - Jonathan Jay -The Mindset of an entrepreneurial 'lifer' - solving problems, making decisions, self belief

My guest is Jonathan Jay. We met in 2001 in Chicago and have been friends since. Jonathan knows his strengths in business. He loves the game of business, how to build and grow businesses. He is extraordinary at marketing. He also has a really good heart. He is generous and kind. One day a few years ago when I was struggling, he sent me a package of all the materials that comprised his product, as a gift. (Sent from the UK to Australia no less.) When my daughter was ending her gap year European tour, and found herself broke in London, Jonathan took her in. He was the typical bachelor at that stage and Natalie tells me that what was in his fridge was so far passed its used by date it was cultivating other species. She had to go hungry for a little longer. Fortunately for the many people who have benefited from Jonathan's work he sticks to business and not domestic pursuits.

Please enjoy this episode.



Jonathan Jay has run his own businesses from the age of 19 and sold two of them, the first when he was 26 and the most recent in 2007 for c£5 million pounds. His current business employs 25 staff in SW London and is the UK market leader provider of marketing services to small businesses with 60,000 members.

Jonathan’s previous company turned over a million pounds in the first year and made a million pounds net a few years later. He has advising companies on marketing since 1999 as he is considered expert on the subject as a result of his business track record.

He has written five books, the first in 2003, all on marketing. He has presented TV shows for BBC2 and a business show called ‘Now I’m The Boss” and commented on business and marketing on BBC Breakfast, CNBC News and Sky News. He has been a guest on over 25 radio shows.

At the Business Start Up Show, for five consecutive years he headlined on the main stage and appeared on a Dragon’s Den style panel with Peter Jones from the TV show and at another event with Duncan Bannatyne.

He has been featured in The Sunday Times (as a marketing expert), The Financial Times (as entrepreneur of the week), The Observer (where his company was cited as the number one in its field in the UK), The Daily Mail and The Daily Express – all very positively.

He regularly is the guest entrepreneur at Young Enterprise awards ceremonies where he lectures and awards the prizes. He has run marketing seminars where he has donated over £10,000 to Great Ormond Street Hospital in entrance fees.

Mr Jay is an accomplished businessman and marketing expert who always speaks from experience. In 2010 he was the top European in an international competition to find the Marketer of the Year, held in Atlanta USA.

Show notes

*Work may start to define you...a bad day at work may then affect everything

*Do you have a clear definition between work and the rest of your life?

*When people start a business they often think that the business is going to liberate them, yet it might end up having them on a bigger hamster wheel than the one they left

*First business card aged 12 years old

*Stage performance taught him how to not be afraid to be on stage, how to market himself and the value of focused work

*When you create friction in the market place, ruffling a few feathers, you might be doing something right

*Flaw - swapping time for money

*How can I construct something that works when I am not there?

*Didn't feel like he was failing, rather...he learned to morph things into something else

*Overnight everything changed

*From zero to a million pounds revenue in 12 months...

*Another pile of final demands...printed in red ink...what kept him focused when this was happening?

*The deep down believe that he was better than the evidence that was presented to him

*"I have complete belief in my ability to succeed, I didn't allow myself the opportunity of failing"

*Successful personality - positive, resilient, don't take things personally

*Important to have a life outside of work

*No correlation between the number of hours you work and the success of your business

*Most business owners don't focus on doing the right things

*Can I do something bigger and better than the last thing?

*It's so much about mindset

*I love the feeling of being able to conquer my doubts and fears

*It's a bit of a game. If you take it too seriously it can be damaging

*Mastery of the art of business, not about being right and perfect, but being prepared

*If something doesn't go according to plan...move on quickly

*The better you are at solving problems and making decision the better you will be at business

*Every problem has a solution

*The more he focuses on the personal stuff the better he is finding work

*The people who can disengage from their business are the ones doing better

*Get other people to do what you are not good at, work your strengths

*The Virgin group didn't become successful because they have a great filing system

*DOA = delegate, outsource, automate



Digital Lighthouse

Laura Berman Fortgang

Brian Tracy

The Magic of Thinking Big, David Schwartz


Please leave a comment here, or on itunes. If you like the show, your comments on itunes helps us grow and reach more people. Spread the love...with thanks..

Direct download: Jonathan20Jay20-2093A103A20142012.5920pm.m4a
Category:Business -- posted at: 8:36pm EDT

2.23am The Podcast Season #1, Episode 6 - Robb Smith - The path of large scale systems transformation

 2.23am The Podcast Season #1, Episode 6 - Robb Smith - The path of large scale systems transformation

Robb and I met in Brazil in 2009 at the State of the World Forum. When I began the 2.23am journey Robb was one of the people I went to for advise, mentoring, brainstorming, emotional and mental support. Only last Christmas, when the project was still in ideation stage, Robb encouraged me that this was really OK. (When most people would criticize for seeming lack of ideal to action after nearly two years.)

Robb is one of those people who has a big mission in life. That journey is never easy. In this conversation you will get a sense of both the size of the mission and the habits that sustain the journey. You will also get a feel for Robb's entrepreneurial strength and his very unique skills...technology, spirituality, philosophy and venture capital.

To listen on itunes, soundcloud, or stitcher,


To download transcript Robb Smith, Season #1, Episode #6


Robb's Bio

Robb is a social entrepreneur dedicated to fostering the new “Transformation Age” at the intersection of human development, technology and civilizational sustainability. At 21 he started Nevada Ventures, the state’s first venture capital fund, and co-founded the Reno-Tahoe chapter of Entrepreneur’s Organization. He established the Nevada Ventures Nanoscience Program at the University of Nevada, recognized by Scientific American for the world’s most significant biodefense technology in 2004. He was a director of RetailOne, National Car Wash Systems and Alere, which became the largest population health company in the United States (NYSE: ALR). He cofounded NevadaNano, which in 2013 won an R&D 100 as one of the top technologies in the world. He then joined Ken Wilber to spearhead the integral consciousness movement, where he fostered metadisciplinary work including the Journal of Integral Theory and Practice, Integral Spiritual Experience and WhatNEXT. In 2007 he was a founding member of Conscious Capitalism Institute, dedicated to transforming capitalism into a vehicle for greater love and trust worldwide. In 2011 he co-founded Chrysallis. He is a past Trustee of the Nevada Museum of Art and a current Trustee of Desert Research Institute. He has been named Nevada’s Young Entrepreneur of the Year and was nominated for the 2012 TED Prize.
TEDx: The Transformational Life  Twitter: @robbsmith

 Show notes

*Disparity in the world - economic, health, relevance

*USA 80 million people pre- diabetic, 120 million people with chronic disease

*Health is the new wealth

*Fear of not being relevant

*Transform the people, the systems, the consciousness inside business

*What does transformation mean technically inside the human brain?

*Living koan - How do we help large numbers of people be happier, healthier, be more productive, feel more engaged in life - in ways that are genuinely deeply grounding

*Prevailing narratives may be misleading - self congratulatory feel to humanity now - how smart we are.

*Large systemic issues like obesity are highly resistant to being influenced

*Evolution always does work out fine in the end. Humans may suffer a lot.

*The USA particularly has been living on a post WW2 dividend, which is now over (as of 2008)

*70 % of people don't feel engaged by their work today

*Flow states, signature strengths, living into your purpose

*Marry your top 2-3 signature strengths with your daily activity in an area that you are passionate about and you will create more flow states. This is evidence based.

*Be careful of purpose surfing

*Expertise at the intersection of technology, philosophy, spirituality and venture capital

*To stay sustained there are 3 levels of practice (1) good life hygiene (2) psycho-emotional - growth mindset (3) (a.) the ego/identity doesn't exist (b.) all effort is ignorance

*Any time we are expending effort (distinction) with a goal to change the world, we are causing as much perturbation as we are healing

*Affectionate non attachment

*Addiction to transient highs that come from achievement

*Realise you are nothing, and then you become identified with everything (Vedanta)

*Your waking up opportunity is right here right now.. and enjoy the journey

*In flow you do not have an attachment to what you are doing. All effort, no attachment

*Flow is a non egoic, non temporal state

*Simplification requires a move into greater discernment

*We don't know how to be bored...

*The biggest fear of all...the fear of being ordinary




Integral Life

Ken Wilber

Conscious Capitalism


Carol Dweck, Growth Mindset

TEDx talk - The Transformational Life

Ramana Maharshi





* Yoda, Empire Strikes Back, "Do or do not, there is no try."

Please let us know what you thought of this episode by leaving a comment. And by all means pass this on to your friends and colleagues...







Direct download: Robb_Smith2_-_3102014_4.46_pm.m4a
Category:Business -- posted at: 9:58pm EDT