2.23am What Wakes You?






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In 2006 Dr Martin gave a fireside chat to the Arlington Institute in Washington DC about the sequence of events that, if viewed objectively, could only lead to what we now know as the Global Financial Crisis.


Dr Christine McDougall wanted to recreate this Fireside chat 10 years later, specifically looking at the coming collapse of 2017, and what communities can do to build a more resilience local economy.

We commence with history, then move to the present, then consider what Australia can do as a Nation and what local communities can do.

This is Part 1. Part 2 is a Q@A.

Direct download: Fireside_Chat9516-_1.47_pm.mp3
Category:Business -- posted at: 12:56am EDT

Integral Accounting is both an operating system and a way of being in the world that honours and reveals the true value already present in all dimensions of life. Most people approach the world through a type of uni-dimensional awareness. The form of dimensional constraint to which we’ve all become accustomed limits value to a single dimension we call “Money”.

But what would the world be like if we expanded our notions of value beyond a single dimension of money and into four, five, or even six dimensions. How would the world appear if we honored the dimension of money and recognized its role, but also perceived value across multiple domains and categories previously ignored or unnoticed. Integral Accounting upgrades our operating system so that we can see the value that is already present everywhere and in everything, no matter what the circumstances.  Equipped with the optics of Integral Accounting, we begin to realize that everything we need for the next step on our journey (professionally, socially, personally) is already here. With the lens of Integral Accounting, we see that the world is perfectly abundant exactly as it is.


This call was recorded with a live virtual audience on Monday 15th December 2014, Australian time, as the events in Sydney Martin Place were unfolding, were a gunman had seized hostages in the Lindt Coffee Shop.

As I write this and upload this audio, the outcomes of this hostage event has not been resolved.

If you are interested in the three day event on the Gold Coast, January 9/10/11, 2015, please visit http://blog.223am.com/events/

If you are interested in future events, please send an email to christine@223am.com and I will add you to the list.

If you have any specific questions about this event, or the work of Dr Martin, or 2.23am, then please send me an email. christine@223am.com

Thank you for listening.





Direct download: David_Martin_IA_151214.mp3
Category:Business -- posted at: 10:56pm EDT



©Rebecca Emily DrobisAll Rights ReservedAuthor Daniel Pink

2:23AM Podcast, Season #1, Episode #16  - Dan Pink, Best Selling Author; Drive, To Sell is Human

Lucky me got to chat with Dan Pink. I have followed Dan since I read A Whole New Mind. So it was lovely when one of my friends and supporters of 2:23AM made the personal introduction.

I am always fascinated by the threads that resonate strongly through peoples lives, and with Dan it has been his commitment and tenacity to bring social and cultural research to a global audience in  a way that makes sense and challenges some of our deeper assumptions about work, and what motivates us.  And the extraordinary commitment Dan has to make his message come alive for people, landing in simplicity...certainly the simplicity on the other side of complexity.

Enjoy this episode.

To listen on itunes, soundcloud, stitcher, to download, or stream below.


Daniel H. Pink is the author of five provocative books — including three long-running New York Times bestsellers, A Whole New Mind, Drive, and To Sell is Human. Dan’s books have been translated into 34 languages and have sold more than 2 million copies worldwide.  He is also host and co-executive producer of “Crowd Control,” a new television series about human behavior on the National Geographic Channel. He lives in Washington, DC, with his wife and their three children.

Show notes

*What inhabits Dan's center a lot is a sense of challenge. "Can I do something in a different way, can I master this set of material? Can I explain something that sheds light for people?" Plus a desire to make a tiny contribution.

*Dan is an intensely rational person

*Dream dinner guest, Jesus, Buddha and Mohammed - they have far greatest impact in terms of quantity of people reached, plus this dinner would enable Dan to turn the conversation into a great book. What do they make of what is going on in the world today? Get them to put their three heads together and have them tell us what they would do today.

*There is an element of morality in goodness that is rational. Certain aspects of morality are encoded in our DNA.

*"Obscurity is a much greater problem than piracy"

*Big five traits - openness, conscientiousness, extroversion, agreeableness, neuroticism

*Conscientiousness has become a very important predictor of flourishing and effectiveness

*Dan goes through his writing process with us



Dan Pink, web site

Free Agent Nation

The Adventures of Johnny Bunko - The Last Career Guide You Will Ever Need

A Whole New Mind - Why Right Brainers Will Rule the Future

Drive - The Surprising Truth About What Motivates Us

To Sell is Human

Dan's TED talk, seen by over 12 million people

Crowd Control, National Geographic

Carol Dwerk and her work on Mindsets

The Progress Principle by Teresa Amabile and Steven Kramer

Drive Workshops

Direct download: Dan_Pink_-_10122014_4.50_pm.m4a
Category:Business -- posted at: 11:26pm EDT

 Brad Krauskopf- Change the way you work - coworking spaces

2:23AM the Podcast - Season #1, Episode #15 - Brad Krauskopf- Change the way you work - coworking spaces

Brad Krauskopf would easily be one of the world experts in co-working spaces. He see's the future of work as a combination of co-working and the more traditional office. Brad has a phenomenal vision for how we work, and the entrepreneurial, business and charismatic ability to pull it off. Watch this space.

To listen on itunes, soundcloud, stitcher, to download.



CEO & Founder – Third Spaces Group

Brad Krauskopf activates spaces that grow the collaborative capacity of individuals, businesses and cities. He is an entrepreneur, innovator and speaker.

As CEO of Third Spaces Group, Brad is committed to catalysing a national network of smart work hubs that changes the way Australia works. Since 2011, he has founded Hub Australia, CoActiv8 and Platform 3 to help realise this goal.

Hub Australia, Australia’s largest coworking community works with small and large organisations across Australia to drive innovation through collaboration across sectors, disciplines and generations. As pioneers of coworking in Australia, Hub Melbourne, Hub Sydney and Adelaide are all visited by hundreds of people every week for working, learning and creating.

CoActiv8, works with corporate and government clients across Australia to setup, manage and operate collaborative and flexible workspaces.

Platform Three provides shared marketing and technology services for work hubs and has developed an integrated member and operating platform – MESH Spaces.

Brad is a strong advocate for creating impact beyond profit and has committed all of his companies to achieve BCorp certification by early 2015. Hub Australia was a founding BCorp in Australia.

A career entrepreneur, Brad has previously led businesses in event management, technology and has lived, studied and worked in both Spain and the U.S.

Brad was named Australia's Small Business Ambassador for 2013 by the Council of Small Business in Australia.

 Show notes

*The future of work and people's relationship to work - we we are always on, always connected

*Liberated work or free range work - a new way of working - people choose the work and their lifestyle

*About 40% of workers have some form of liquidity in their work - are in the independent workforce. The lines are blurring between being a freelancer and being employed

*How do you combine people and ideas to form new products or services that add value? The people that can become masters at collaboration and coming up with new ideas are creating the new capital

*At Hub Adelaide - brought together government, local small businesses and youth entrepreneurs, groups of people who might not have otherwise come together...resulted in youth entrepreneurs creating nine businesses

*One of the key things that underlie Hub is that is it a fail free zone

*Chaordic space - between chaos and order - requires a deliberate but light touch in the curation of the space

*People coming to co-working spaces for the possibility of what might happen when they come together

*Two required roles; the Space Host- makes the space feel welcome and authentic and the Community Manager- builds the connections between everyone

*GSD = getting shit done

*Fail free zone - no-one brings their position title into the HUB. Everyone's on the same level. This allows an opening up for surprise

*A space is not sufficient for collaboration. You need a diversity of spaces

*When the members become the hosts you see the community come alive

*The host is not there to get you a coffee, they are there to get you a connection

*When the founder of a start up actually enjoys what they are working on and where they are working it trumps any good idea

*The next boom in Australia is harnessing the knowledge capital of the really diverse talent we have across Australia

*How do we catalyze a national network of work hubs, 100's even 1000's of work hubs across Australia, in regional areas as well?

*By 2025 75% of the work force will be Gen Y. Flexibility, global workforce, all second nature to Gen Y. If you do not change to embrace this as a company the Gen Y people will leave for another company

*How would we create the organisation of the future from what we know now?

*The combination of distributed nodes and centralised networks

*The forth space...between the virtual and the physical

*It's actually much easier working in a silo. Collaboration is hard. But worthwhile and needed




To find Brad on Linkedin

To find Brad on Twitter: @BradKrauskopf

Third Space

Hub Australia





Direct download: Brad_Krauskopf_-_5122014_8.10_am.m4a
Category:Business -- posted at: 5:35pm EDT

2:23AM The podcast, Season #1, Episode #14 - AJ Leon, Chief Misfit - breaking all the rules, building a global business

2:23AM The podcast, Season #1, Episode #14 - AJ Leon, Chief Misfit - breaking all the rules, building a global business, becoming a socialist entrepreneur

I first met AJ via an interview I did with him 2 years ago. Within a year of that interview AJ and Melissa Leon were guests in my home on the first stop on their global pre-book launch tour. AJ's story is the one many want to be able to tell, but few have the courage to enact. Evacuating the trap of the soulless job and the lure of lots of money and stepping into the abyss, determined to forge paths created at the intersection of the life wanting to be lived and work wanting to be expressed.

The 2:23AM podcast project is about interviewing people who are re-writing the rules of business and life and following their journey over the course of a few years. AJ is truly the first to occupy this space, as we now have two years of his journey captured in audio. Please take the time to be inspired by the first interview.

Enjoy this episode.

To listen on itunes, soundcloud, stitcher, to download, or stream below.


Bio, in AJ's words

'I used to be an unremarkably average financial executive in Manhattan. I made six figures, had an outrageous bonus package and a corner office overlooking the greatest city in the world.  The problem was I didn’t care about any of these things.  I was passionless about my work.  And of course, I hated myself for trading the hours of my life away for more money at every turn.  On December 31, 2007, I left my six figure, crazy bonus, Manhattan corner office job.  Not for a raise.  Not in a vertical move to another company. Not to get a change of scene.  But to stop, once and for all, living some other dude’s life.  That day I realized two things.  There was more to life than working a job you hate, and more importantly, there was more to me than could ever be expressed in a place with so many rules.'

Now AJ runs about 6 businesses with 20 staff all with no fixed address.

Show Notes

*The best dressed gypsy in the world

*Million Miracles with Sight Savers

*Runs a company that maps to his interests

*The act of making things is intoxicating

*Three people trading bagels back in 2008

*Desire to create a team that sticks together forever

*Profitability takes the passenger seat

*Build a company around the life he wanted to lead

*Evacuated a life plan that had gone horribly wrong, started Misfit with nothing

*Wrote letters to his younger self, introduced himself to his younger self, the dreamer

*A life of purpose and meaning and adventure..

*Everything he did at Misfit was something he would be proud of

*All staff at Misfit Inc..."You will never ever work on something you are not proud of"

*Socialist Entrepreneur - most companies are created to serve a founder, but not in Misfit, AJ pays himself no more than 20% higher than the lowest paid staff, is the 7th highest paid person in the company at present (20 staff from around the world)

*Hard to define what we do...a name and a community and 6 different businesses that extend from it...the opposite of all 'traditional' business advise

*There is always room at Misfit for Innovation and R@D

*Big student of history - The Rockefeller's etc...they built things...so invested hugely in learning  how to build digital platform's...then no matter what idea he had he could build it

*Creative digital agency provides the seed capital to do the other things

*There are still economic gradients in areas of high poverty...the successful farmers in a village in sub Sahara Africa adopted a strategy where the majority of his acreage was with the subsistence foods, and a small percentage was for new crops that may or may not take off

*Best quitter in the world when he needs to be

*85 year old Cuban grandmother has always told him...keep moving forward, never stop



*Misfit Inc

*Million Miracles

*Original recording with AJ, telling his story of creating Misfits Inc (very inspirational)


*Fargo event

*AJ Leon blog

If you love this episode please rate the show on itunes...it supports getting the word out to more people...in gratitude.

Direct download: aj_leon_-_28112014_8.28_am.m4a
Category:Business -- posted at: 5:48pm EDT


2:23AM The podcast, Season #1, Episode #13 - Don Beck -Spiral Dynamics, on the Middle East and natural systems design

I met Don in the early 2000's when I went to Boulder Colorado to study Spiral Dynamics with him. Elza Maalouf was in the same class. Don also came to Australia several times and ran a three day workshop for a small group of us on the Gold Coast. Understanding Spiral Dynamics changed my world, enabling me to see global and local issues in a far more comprehensive way. My teacher of 27 years, R.Buckminster Fuller, talked about trim tabs, small actions that make massive change. Spiral Dynamics when handled by a spiral wizard, is a trim tab. Don is a spiral wizard. I hope you enjoy this episode.

To listen on itunes, soundcloud, stitcher, to download, or stream below.



“Herein lies the Global knot: The seemingly irreconcilable conflict between and among the haves, the have nots, the have a little but want more, and the have a lot but are never content. There must be a better way.”

Don Edward Beck is a teacher, geopolitical advisor, and theorist focusing on applications of large scale psychology, including social psychology, evolutionary psychology, organizational psychology and their effect on human sociocultural systems.

Show notes

*a momentous leap that humanity is about to make

*we are trying to jettison an old order and embrace a new one

*embracing what the world is becoming

*we can go back to the future and forward to the past

*all the value system are appearing on Earth at the same time

*every solution presents the next set of problems

*not sure what nature is saying to us yet, but listening very closely

*what is the system maker, the generator of these systems? Why is what is next next?

*no point to get rid of what we do not want without specifying what we do want

*worked intimately on the end of apartheid in South Africa

*what if the real differences are not about the obvious 'race' and 'religion' but about deep value systems?

*we are an evolutionary intelligence

*life is an attempt to cope with changing life conditions while managing the new ones

*those people who are working in the 7th and 8th code operate from humility

*Spiral Dynamics is not a behavioural system, it is a thinking system and values system

*after the World Cup Rugby win of  1995 in South Africa many South Africans became "South African's" for the very first time (See Invictus, the movie)

*it's possible to perform miracles if one is willing to change the categories of how we see people and see how they fit together using natural design

*If you get Ebola and you are in Palestine where would you want to go? You would want to go to Israel for treatment. So why would you want to destroy Israel?

*the 7th code asks...is it functional?

*it's a yeasty time

*what is humanities master code?

*no more prizes for forecasting the rain, only prizes for building the ark


Elza Maalouf and her new book, Emerge, The Rise of Functional Democracy and the Future of the Middle East

Clare W. Graves

Spiral Dynamics, the book

Conscious Capitalism movement


Direct download: Don_beck_-_20112014_4.25_pm.m4a
Category:Business -- posted at: 6:47pm EDT

 2:23AM The podcast, Season #1, Episode #12 - Kevin Kelly - Senior Maverick Wired Magazine

2:23AM The podcast, Season #1, Episode #12 - Kevin Kelly - Senior Maverick Wired Magazine

I was so excited when I got a reply from Kevin Kelly saying yes to the podcast. For those of you who do not know who Kevin is, he is easily considered the wise oracle and elder of technology. Anyone in the tech space will pay attention to what Kevin says. He was one of the founders of Wired Mag, and is now its senior maverick.

I have been following the work of Kevin for many years now. He has such a whole systems view of technology. He is also a keen photographer, a hiker, father, world traveler and uses technology with great consideration. Plus he is a maker.

I particularly loved the close of this podcast where he talks about cool and useless tools, about humans being less efficient.

I do hope you enjoy this episode.

To listen in itunes, soundcloud, stitcher, to download, or stream below.



Kevin Kelly is Senior Maverick at Wired magazine. He co-founded Wired in 1993, and served as its Executive Editor from its inception until 1999. He is also editor and publisher of the popular Cool Tools website, which has been running for 11 years. From 1984-1990 Kelly was publisher and editor of the Whole Earth Review, a journal of unorthodox technical news. He co-founded the ongoing Hackers' Conference, and was involved with the launch of the WELL, a pioneering online service started in 1985. He authored the best-selling New Rules for the New Economy, the classic book on decentralized emergent systems, Out of Control, as well as a new theory of technology, What Technology Wants. His most recent book is the self-published best-seller Cool Tools: A Catalog of Possibilities.

Show notes

*On the optimist chart he is a 10 out of 11, as to where we are headed as a people and society

*Small concerns about us not having a very good consensus around cyber conflict, we do not have rules for that. Concerned about species loss from our increasing technium.

*The technium has a behaviour of its own and has a developmental trajectory where some things are inevitable, such as robots.

*Technology is not as far from life and humans as he thought

*Was part of the internet in 1981, one of the first 10 people

*We have engineered ourselves as humans, we have domesticated ourselves as humans, changed our genes through our choice of food.

*We are not separate from the technium, but have created it, so we are both the creators and at effect of it. The parent and the child. This means we will always have conflicted feelings with the technium.

*Whole Earth catalog was the web on news print.

*The web is not good at curating. So many choices.

*Cool Tools - You can rent a bulldozer, build a log cabin, run for local office and win, etc..

*The internet is an amplifier and it amplifies both good and bad

*"What is an act of aggression? What is a border? What is national sovereignty? All the basic assumptions are all up for question.

*Focus on opportunities rather than fears.

*Exotrophy the opposite of entropy. Increase order due to the rate of entropy.

* When we invent things we are part of the great arc of evolution.

*Cool an useless tools = art.

*Big believer in doing things that aren't productive, that are done out of love and passion, because more things are invented during this time.

*Artists in residence are a great asset.

*Sometimes it is better to be inefficient.

*Productivity is for robots.



Cool Tools The Book

Cool Tool website

New Rules for the New Economy

Out of Control, the book

What Technology Wants, the book

Stephen J Gould

Kevin's latest article in Wired Mag. The Future of Artificial Intelligence

Direct download: Kevin_Kelly_-_13112014_3.52_pm.m4a
Category:Business -- posted at: 1:21am EDT

Polly Higgins -The Earth needs a good lawyer

The remarkable Polly Higgins is my guest today. I had become aware of her work several years ago then heard her talk in Brisbane in early 2014. As a life long student of Buckminster Fuller, Polly is a trimtab, taking what might look like a very small action that will have massive implications for the long term health of Earth. I simply love her work. She has a deep respect for business which is rare for someone so passionate about the long term health of Earth.

To listen on itunes, soundcloud, stitcher, to download, or stream below.


Bio, in Polly's words

I am someone who cares deeply about the Earth. I’m also a lawyer who loves the Earth. It’s not often lawyers talk about love – and it can feel strange to do so. However, I believe love and law can be brought together and when the two meet, the potential to create new laws that put people and planet first is born.

I’m rethinking law; my vision is a world that works from one simple overriding principle: ‘first do no harm.’  That is a world where people are thriving in harmony with nature. I believe in well-being for all beings and I apply permaculture principles to new law.

My latest book is I Dare You To Be Great. Due out on the 1st of November 2014, you can pre-order it here.

I have also written Eradicating Ecocide and Earth is our Business – both of which examine in depth the power of a law of Ecocide to enable individuals, communities, governments and NGO’s to bring to court prosecutions to examine the evidence of a given Ecocide and have the support of the law to prevent, prohibit and in some instances pre-empt the mass damage and destruction that is causing or is likely to cause significant harm.

In recognition of my services to the Earth, in 2013 I received Honoris Causa Business Doctorate from the Business School of Lausanne, took the seat as the Honorary Arne Naess Professor at Oslo University, was named the Earth’s Lawyer by the Change Awards and ‘One of the world’s top ten visionary thinkers’ by the Ecologist Magazine.

My current focus of enquiry is on leadership crime, closing the door to dangerous industrial activity and creating a legal duty of care.

Much of my time is put to best use writing, speaking and advising on an international law of Ecocide. I advise at all levels; governmental, legal and non-legal. I connect with a wide-range of organisations, NGO’s and lawyers. I am a barrister, author and Chairwoman of the Eradicating Ecocide Global Initiative. I co-founded the Earth Law Alliance and I am a leading advocate for Earth law.  You can read more about my work here.

I love nature and I seek out the wild.


Show notes

*Bringing the law of ecocide into International Law, this will create a level playing field right across the board.

*CEO's and directors must determine if there activity is going to cause harm, and if so, it becomes criminal activity

*Those who move fast will have first mover advantage.

*5 year ecocide amnesty period - allows the time to train people up in new skills

*Currently we have treaties, conventions and protocols, which do not have any enforcement mechanisms. So zero consequences if you do not follow through.

*Criminal law has consequences. Ecocide will be part on International Criminal Law.

*The law will apply to CEO's, Heads of State etc.

*The law at the moment is to put the shareholders first.

*Politicians are falling into the trap of putting profit first and short term thinking. They are saying this is a 'good' harm, because it helps the economy today.

*In criminal law it is an aggravating feature if you are making money out of something that is causing harm. There is no such thing as a good or bad harm. There is simply harm.

*Why have we become so numbed out about the harm we have been doing to the Earth?

*Got expelled from school for standing up to a teacher who was bullying a child. (Including punching the teacher - using fists not recommended)

*Morally what we are doing to the Earth is a crime.

*The law plays catch up with where the society is going.

*Assistance is required for companies during the transition.

*The flow of investment won't touch a company that is undertaking criminal activity.

*"The Earth is in need of a good lawyer." How do we create a legal duty of care for the earth.

*A quester asks a big question.

* Propose that this law is tabled in the next year, 2015, and be fully operational in 2020. It requires one Head of State who is a signatory to the Rome Statue to call for this to be amended.

*Keeping this out in the public domain in a big way. Ecocide was to become an international crime between 1985 and 1996 when it was removed during a closed door meeting.

*Ecocide was proposed in 1972, and perhaps even earlier.

*"Had I known what was going to be involved I would have said no way."

*"My way of being is aligned with my way of doing." With what I value in life.

*Daring myself to be great. Believe there is something greater at play. It has been an exploration of what it is to dare to be great.

*When human law is aligned with spiritual law then harmony shall prevail.

*First do no harm and when we do that all that flows from it can only be beautiful.

*"Thinking dutifully, acting beautifully." Arne Naess

*From significant harm to significant harmony

*Ecocide is a trimtab

*Inner ecocide

*Where do you choose to put your energies in life? Align with what you care about and what you are doing. How to fast -track...

*The eye of the storm, in the middle of deepest doubt...go back to first principles.

*Enough....there must be another way. Calling in the help. Where can I go here? The help comes from deep within. Allow yourself to feel that deep pain. Now how can I use my unique skills to take this forward?

*Getting better at feeling, not just feeling better. If we do not feel we numb out, and our decision making becomes corrupt.

*Corrupt = cour (the heart) rupturing of the heart. The inability to feel.



Polly Higgins

Rome Statute

Eradicating Ecocide

Arne Naess

Deep ecology

Buckminster Fuller

I Dare You to Be Great, book

Direct download: Polly_Higgins_-_7112014_10.36_am.m4a
Category:Business -- posted at: 8:38pm EDT

2:23AM Podcast Season #1, Episode #10 - Cindy Wigglesworth - On Spiritual Intelligence and the frontiers of leadership

2:23AM Podcast Season #1, Episode #10 - Cindy Wigglesworth - On Spiritual Intelligence and the frontiers of leadership

As someone who has worked for nearly 20 years in leadership development I simply love Cindy's work. We first met in Sydney several years ago where I was impressed by the beautiful articulation Cindy has around her work with Spiritual Intelligence that only comes through years of atunement, refinement and profound commitment. Spiritual Intelligence is an intelligence whose time has come.

If you are remotely interested in your own development as a leader, a human being, a lover, parent or entrepreneur, then the work of SQ is something to consider.

To listen on itunes, soundcloud, stitcher, to download, or listen below.



Cindy Wigglesworth, President, Deep Change

Cindy Wigglesworth, MA is the author of the best-selling and award-winning book SQ21: The Twenty-One Skills of Spiritual Intelligence (SelectBooks, 2012)

Her SQ21 spiritual intelligence self-assessment has created a validated and diversity-appropriate way of having spiritual conversations in the workplace. John Mackey, co-CEO of Whole Foods Market, calls her SQ approach “the next frontier in leadership.”

Cindy founded her business, now called Deep Change, in 2000 after working at ExxonMobil for 20 years in Human Resources management. She teaches leadership development and focuses on the multiple intelligences required for success in our personal and professional lives.

Cindy has spoken at numerous conferences including: TEDx Sonoma County, TEDx Lower East Side, Conscious Capitalism, Integral Leadership in Action, Business and Consciousness, Spirit in Business, Spirit at Work and the World Business Academy. Cindy has appeared on Oprah, PBS, Fox26 News and numerous radio programs and conferences. Her blog can be found on the Huffington Post.

 Show notes

*Spiritual Intelligence = The ability to behave with wisdom and compassion while maintaining inner and outer peace regardless of the situation.

*Will we grow up fast enough to solve all the problems we have created?

*From white picket fence to Bombay aged 6.

*What does it mean to be a good human being?

*For Cindy the personal and global have been married since the beginning.

*"If I just studied hard enough I would find something that would help me figure this all out."

*How grown up are we? Can we handle the complexity of the systems in which we are embedded?

*Overdeveloped IQ, thinking this would solve all problems. "We get that you are really smart, however you are somewhat annoying to be around."

*Listening to people is a radically good idea.

*As the who that she was changed her leadership changed and she became far more effective, yet she was doing none of the usual expert self stuff. No longer able to tell people, "Here is the solution."

*The difference between a facilitative leader versus a more traditional one.

*What if I came in with not knowing?

*How do human beings grow up?

*How have the noblest people, like the Nelson Mandela's and Gandhi's get to the place of humility? It's not that they are perfect. It's not that they have zero ego, which is probably not attainable.

*Is my ego running my life or is my higher self running my life?

*The ego grows up as it expands the circle of concern for others, from little me, to me and my family, to me and my family and my city, to me, my family, my city, and my nation...to the whole world and all sentient beings.

*Each time a layer of ego is peeled off it feels like your skin is raw.

*Talk about the skills and stay away from beliefs.

*Spirituality defined as an innate human need to be connected to something larger than our selves.

*Religion is the structure we create as human beings to help us in support of our spiritual hunger.

*An intelligence is an innate potential that is brought into form through practice. (for example, musical ability needs practice.)

*Spiritual Intelligence is a set of skills that is something more than IQ and EQ, that distinguishes these exemplars that we keep pointing to. (Nelson Mandela etc) What makes Gandhi different from a person you really like that has outstanding interpersonal skills? There is something more. This is spiritual intelligence.

*Aware of your ego self and higher self and choosing to live with your higher self in charge. If you are not interested in either of these two things then SQ is not for you.

*The four intelligences of leadership. Physical, Emotional, IQ, and Spiritual Intelligence

*Holding multiple perspectives simultaneously is a sign of high SQ.



*Deep Change, Spiritual Intelligence

*Cindy's TEDx talks as hosted on TEDx sites: and here.

*OR you can see THEM ON YOUTUBE where Cindy gets credit for views. And here.

*Author page on Amazon:




Please leave comments here, or even better on itunes, which helps us spread the word of the podcast.

Direct download: Cindy_W_-_31102014_9.29_am.m4a
Category:Business -- posted at: 8:01pm EDT

2:23AM, the podcast, Season #1, Episode #9 - Hugo Spowers, Riversimple - redesigning cars, redesigning business

2:23AM, the podcast, Season #1, Episode #9 - Hugo Spowers, Riversimple - redesigning cars, redesigning business

Wow, wow, wow...Riversimple is not just about redesigning cars and redesigning business...what Hugo and his team have done over the last 15 years is turn how we engage in business on its head. As a follow on to the last episode with Frederic Laloux, Hugo is building a business in a very traditional area (car manufacturing) but turning it completely on its head. No tinkering here. This is a new model. It is quite breathtaking. I want one of his cars, now.

Enjoy this episode.


To listen on itunes, on stitcher,



Chief engineer and founder, Hugo has a passion for zero emission vehicles. An Oxford University trained engineer and entrepreneur, he founded and ran a business designing and building racing cars and restoring historic racing cars. Environmental concerns led him away from motorsport; the focus of his MBA at Cranfield University was a feasibility study into bringing hydrogen fuel cell cars to market. He founded OScar Automotive in 2001, which became Riversimple in 2007. The first fuel cell car to emerge was the LIFECar, developed by a consortium Hugo brought together with Morgan and presented at the Geneva Motorshow in 2008. The small  Hyrban technology demonstrator followed in 2009. Hugo is responsible for all the technical aspects of the new car in development and for the architecture of the business itself.


Show notes

*2:23AM moments- will people ever wake up?

*highly efficient, resource neutral cars are entirely possible, the problem is people and politics

*much easier to work from the outside of the motor industry than from the inside

*First car complete March 2015, beta test late 2015, production 2017

*disruptive shift in technology comes from left field, starts in a niche market, the niche is too small for the incumbent, it leads to a change in segmentation of the market, and the incumbent is in a very mature market (the automotive one of the most mature markets)

*car is now unfit for purpose

*the luxury of a clean sheet of paper allows you to think much more freely

*huge constraints in changing direction

*when you bring people in from the incumbent industries you do have to be sure the people are aligned to your values and purpose

*the purpose of Riversimple is “To pursue, systematically, the elimination of the environmental impact of personal transport”

*backcasting process....imagining a future where we have got sustainable transport, leads you to make very different decisions

*being less unsustainable is still not sustainable

*trying to align the interests of all the actors in the system, rather than focusing on the technology and profit margin and trying to push that into the market

*make more money doing the right thing

*selling a performance contract on a car, will never sell a car. Selling mobility. This contact covers literally everything...fuel, road tax, cost of the car..everything. This changes completely the drivers for the business - no longer wanting to sell more cars, but to sell cars that have the lowest possible running costs/more efficient and the most longevity

*in a sale of product world you are rewarded for resource maximization..the more product you churn through the more you are rewarded. Riversimple is rewarded for resource efficiency.

*Cannot have a sustainable industrial society based on rewarding industry for the opposite of what we are trying to achieve

*Open sourcing the technology

*don't buy fuel cells for the car from suppliers but instead pay for kilowatt hours - buying the service rather than the product

*business model of this last century isn't well suited to the business model of this next century

*explicit about the fact that Riversimple does not want people to take the car through environmental guilt, but because they want it

*can't maximise the goodwill of stakeholders if their interests are subordinated to the interest of the shareholders

*6 different stakeholder groups. The investors, the environment, the customers, the staff, the commercial partners, the community (no direct commercial relationship)

*the fiduciary responsibility of the board is to pursue the purpose (as above) whilst balancing and protecting the 6 benefit streams of the custodians

*answering the need for control in a different way

*customers on a need not to know basis, vs a need to know

*have to get very used to being told it can't be done

*whole systems design - don't optimise by looking at a bit of the car, need to look at the whole system

*trying to fit a radical idea into an old context will not work

*if we had tried to do this quicker we would have failed

*to change things and implement a new model rebelliousness and courage are required

*"we are to be the architect of the future, not its victims" R. Buckminster Fuller

*three different levels of design. D1 design of product and services, D2 is the design of systems, D3 is the design of ideology




Steve Evens, Professor at Cambridge

Sebastian Piech, Chairman

Joanna Macy, 3 Levels of Change



Direct download: Hugo_Spowers_-_23102014_3.46_pm.m4a
Category:Business -- posted at: 2:09am EDT